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Open RAN Based 5G Networks

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Session Abstract:

Operators are now using Kubernetes and automation to roll out 5G and edge applications, as opposed to leveraging legacy technologies and platforms. The Cloud Native space now has leaders that are influencing the landscape for telecom operators globally, accelerating cloud native architectures that deploy 5G and edge services. This session will take the pulse of this acceleration, with leading vendors in the Open RAN sector. On this session are Azita Arvani, GM, Americas at Rakuten Symphony, Robin.io’s CEO Partha Seetala and Thierry Maupilé, SVP of Technology & Product Strategy, also at Rakuten Symphony.

Executive Speakers:

  • Azita Arvani - General Manager Americas, Rakuten Symphony

  • Partha Seetala - Chief Executive Officer, Robin.io

  • Thierry Maupilé - SVP, Technology & Product Strategy, Rakuten Symphony

Transcription

TRANSCRIPTION OPEN RAN BASED 5G NETWORKS

 

Abe Nejad: Rolling out 5G and Edge applications by operators are now using Kubernetes in automation as opposed to legacy technologies and platforms. The cloud-native space now has leaders that are influencing the landscape for telecom operators globally, accelerating cloud-native architectures that deploy 5g and Edge services. This session will take the pulse of this acceleration with leading vendors in the open ran sector on this session are Azita Arvani, she's general manager Americas at Rakuten Symphony. Next we have Robin’s CEO, Partha Seetala and last we have Thierry Maupile, he's now senior vice president of business and product strategy also at Rakuten Symphony.

 

And welcome:



Thierry Maupile: Thanks for having us.



Abe Nejad: Well, thanks for being here. We have a number of topics to cover in this session, but obviously big news while we've been here in Barcelona for Robin.io and also Rakuten Symphony, seemingly all the and company now, as opposed to maybe three days ago. Let's let our audience know a little bit more about that Azita I'll start with you, talk about the acquisition.



Azita Arvani: I'd be more than happy to talk about acquisition. We are delighted to have Robin.io as part of our portfolio, as you know, Sim world has multiple layers to it. The foundational level of this is what we call the unified cloud. We've been working with Robin.io for the last few years, and we think that the containerized, the most advanced cloud-native platform that we offer, and it's not just good for normal workloads and enterprise and IT workloads. But it is optimize for the most demanding networks. And as you know, the radio workloads are very demanding, whether it be for storage or for networking. 



So not just for intensive compute workloads. So we are very happy with this acquisition. And we think that Robin.io really completes the stack that we had, with having [02:03 inaudible] star as part of our network function layer and NY is our intelligent operations layer. And this really completes that entire picture for Sim World.



Abe Nejad: Partha. When most of us arrived here just a few days ago in Barcelona, we did not know about this impending news between Rakuten Symphony and Robin.io, but now it's on every industry trade magazine or digital magazine that you can pull up. So again, tell us how you're feeling.



Partha Seetala: I'm beyond excited. As Azita said, we have been working with Rakuten for a little over two years, a little less than three years, I should say, more than two and a half. And I mean, it was a great journey to begin with, a lot of skeptics initially, whether Rakuten is making the right bet on Kubernetes first and then Robin second, because it's a startup. We proved them all wrong. We went live. In fact, Rakuten is world's first, fully containerized 5g network. And that actually got the attention of most people. So in some ways I think people are predicting that this could happen. And we are very, very excited that we are joining the Rakuten family and really excited to work with Azita and Therry who is also part of Rakuten and [03:15 inaudible] of course and taking this forward.



Abe Nejad: Yeah, absolutely, Thierry it wasn't long ago that Rakuten Symphony acquired Altiostar now called Rakuten Symphony. So how do you feel about this in this news? We've heard in the last couple of days?



Thierry Maupile: For us, it's a journey we started, like [03:34 inaudible] as a startup. It's about entrepreneurs who have a vision, we have an energy to bring innovation in a very difficult market. It's not easy to be a startup, as you all know in the networking infrastructure, but then at some point when we are able to prove that this innovation is very valuable to the market, we need to scale, we need to accelerate. And this is what is all about, as it is for Altiostar, as for Robin.io and other elements of our portfolio that Rakuten Symphony is going to help us to go at scale and much faster with the best of [04:12 inaudible], the best innovation you have for each domain. So Altiostar, we had the privilege being the market and believers of the open RAN, where we will be operating in and being hosted in many clouds.



But it's very clear that what was driving the choice of Robin.io is that we have as of today, the most performing platform in order to host the most demanding workload, which is real time networking function for the RAN. So it's exciting. And I think as you have seen in the show, in the last couple of days, we have a very fast pace, announcing a lot, beside Robin.io, a lot of exciting partnerships and really giving the confidence to the market that there is now an alternative. If you want to build your true cloud-native network, you have now a partner who is able to do that.



Abe Nejad: Yeah. Azita back to you. Again, for the audience out there that are not maybe as astute as the folks in this room on cloud-native and Kubernetes, and then move to that space, give us sort of a setting the stage 30,000 foot assessment of why this acceleration to those technologies.



Azita Arvani: Yeah. So when we first started our 4g service, it was a virtualized network, not containerized. And that was good for the time when we started back in 2020, but then we realized that moving into Kubernetes and doing things in a container based fashion, it actually makes it that much more elastic, that much more scalable. The time it takes to bring up these images that are smaller is much less. So we're talking about a few seconds versus minutes. We're talking about smaller images. Think about like a hundred megabytes versus two gigabytes. 



What that means is that you can have innovation at more granular levels. And then when it comes to auto scaling, auto healing, all of those things are much easier to do in this environment. So just makes the utilization of the service that you have that much more efficient. So you don't have to use as much computing nodes. So just in general, it makes things much more cost-efficient, much more scalable, much more elastic. So these are all the things that people thought could no be done with telco workloads on containerized based type of architecture and partnering with Robin.io proved everybody wrong.



Abe Nejad: Absolutely. Again, acceleration towards Kubernetes cloud-native. What's that rate of adoption for you Partha and is it at a rate that you're comfortable with, as far as how quickly it's moving?



Partha Seetala: Well, it's moving very fast. In general Kubernetes, as many people know, it's the fastest growing open-source project ever in the history of open source. So Kubernetes by itself, I think the adoption rate has been incredible. But the interesting thing is, how do you take a platform like Kubernetes, which is a very general purpose container orchestration platform, and then RAN demanding storage intensive and network intensive workloads. And of course, as some of the audience might know, Robin's journey in the community space has been for almost six years. In fact, from the infancy of Kubernetes onwards. And there were a lot of people who are believers, firm believers, that Kubernetes is great, but you cannot run storage and network intensive workloads. 



Now, of course we proved it, but now what's happening is from the belief that it can be done, a lot of other players are now embracing this thing and saying that, okay, Kubernetes is the way forward. We saw this whole innovation around virtualization, but that's all now, containers bring a different level of efficiency. A better TCO. More easy in terms of doing application development and with the proof that we have been given to the industry. I think there's it's going to accelerate even further than what it has.



Abe Nejad: Thierry, the move to the open-source software strategy. What's your take on that as far as that rate of adoption?



Thierry Maupile: So it's about, where is the innovation and the pace of innovation as Partha mentioned, things are going much faster because you have initiatives, research development, which are happening in the community based like Kubernetes is an example, as it was before, when we were looking at open stack and where we started when we were in the virtualization. Also leveraging open source, but open source has value, give you a foundation, but this is not a final product. And this is why the value that Robin.io has been adding. Okay, I'm taking a Kubernetes, open source software and I'm adding on top, so it can be productized. So it can be really deployed with a carrier grade, because at the end of the day, what we are talking about here is how something which was not conceivable, to take something which maybe open source and how it can become carrier grade. 



Because that's the expectation and the requirement from the telco operators. So I think it will continue and we will stay very active in term of where this innovation is happening and how we will participate and then integrate in our solution what will allow us to really go faster and stay ahead on the [09:54 inaudible]. That's what we are doing. If you look at the Symphony portfolio, which is Sim World, it is really probably the most advanced cloud-native solution that you can have in the market.



Abe Nejad: So certainly Rakuten Symphony's focus is to allow, well, one of their focuses is to allow other operators to leverage open RAN based 5g networks. Again, for the audience out there that hasn't wrapped their head around that just yet. Can you give us an example of how you're doing that?



Azita Arvani: Yeah, sure. So number one for us, the number one customer for Sim World and the platform that we bring is Rock and Mobile in Japan. So we are an operator in Japan, and before we offer these things to other operators, we make sure that it's battle tested with the most demanding market, mobile market that you could find in Japan. So folks in Japan, very demanding, they require high quality services. So we do that, but then we also have the deep partnership up with one on one in Germany to bring the first cloud-native open RAN architecture to their mobile network. So we are designing, building planning and deploying that in Germany nationwide for both 4g and 5g. And we're also working with dish network in the US to help them with their first in the US Oran cloud-native nationwide 5g network.



And we have a lot of other customers in the pipeline that we are working with as well. And one other thing I wanted to mention that, it is not just about Oran, just taking the entire stack, but we have other operators that take various slices of Sim World, whether like we had a partnership with AT&T that we announced yesterday. Actually two days ago, back on Monday in terms of working with them on Sim World intelligent operations layer. So Sim World goes a long way with helping customers.



Abe Nejad: So as far as this support for other operators Partha, how does Robin.io, well now it's Rakuten Symphony, but how does Robin.io play a part in that? Can you walk us through that?



Parthe Seetala: Well, in the context of RCP or now Sim World. So we are the foundational cloud layer. So Sim World is basically a large portfolio of different products coming together. Essentially the work that was done in Japan now, as Azita mentioned at one on one, how do we take that to a broader set of operators? We are part of the foundational layer, but I actually want to expand a little further on this, why fundamentally, I believe this is going to be a very, very disruptive thing. And I will start by using an example. If you look at Amazon or even Google, when they started their AWS service or the Google cloud service, they became a very dominant force in managing centralized data centers. And the reason they could do that is because even before they started AWS or DCP, they had experience managing very large IT type workloads or tech workloads of their own. 



So they've taken that learning. And then they've offered that learning to other people in the form of AWS. Look at what's happening here. Rakuten mobile started in Japan as an operator. It has built the RCP platform there, it is hardened. It's a lot of learning. No taking this to the other operators, it's almost like we have a new AWS movement if you will here. But the interesting thing here is this new AWS movement is not in the centralized data center. It is in the edge data centers. You're almost flipping this model around on its head. And you're saying that what the world has seen in the past with centralized data centers, we have this tremendous opportunity now to see it in the edge data centers. And it is a massive scale, much more than what you're seeing with the hyperscalers. So that I think is very exciting. Both of course, for Robin.io being part of RCP or Sim World now and taking it to the other operators. I think we are actually at a very pivotal moment if you think about it in the industry.



Thierry Maupile: Yeah. So it's very clear and it has been now demonstrated, proven, harden that the next generation of networks will be software-defined in a cloud-native environment where you can really have this. Now another portfolio of microservices, which will be hosting like an app store within the network environment. But we are also going to be in something that we also predicted that it'll be a multi-cloud or hybrid cloud environment. And the delineation is not just going to be like Partha is saying now. The new thing is, it's not just centralized. It is on the edge, but also there's going to be another delineation where obviously some very demanding workloads will have to be hosted on the most performing cloud native environment. 



And this is where for us, it's extremely important for Rakuten Symphony to be able to provide these cloud environments in order to have our software, like, which is the example of the Altiostar software to be able to RAN at the level of performance and capacity and cost that cannot be achieved. Let's be clear. It cannot be achieved with some other cloud environments. And we have now enough in experience to know that all clouds are not equal. So it is extremely important that for the tech world, that we are bringing this expertise where, just make sure you use the right cloud environment for the right purpose, the right network function.



Abe Nejad: Yeah. Terry, I'm going to stick with you when we're talking about 5G deployments, enabling other services. Can you talk specifically about RAN as a service and maybe give us an example of what that is or what that would be?

 

Thierry Maupile: Well, I think it's clear that as you have now an architecture, which is more software defined, and to some extent, as you know, we have also, they say that you can decouple the hardware from the software. Then obviously it does give you the opportunity to be more creative in term of the potential consumption model. So if I take, where I believe from day one is going to be more as service or subscription-based model will be private networks enterprise. Some of them are very used already to subscription model. I think where we are going to introduce this innovation. It's not a technology innovation, but it's a commercial business innovation, is a possibility for the mobile operators also to have this consumption of technology in a very different way, more flexible, not so much upfront loaded, but where they can have something where I trust this partner. They are going to provide me this technology to perform a certain service, a certain set of KPIs or SLAs.

 

And it's up to the supplier to decide at which point there will be a need for refreshing the hardware, not having this model where we have been for too long, where it was the first function, whereas the operator were obliged to do those hardware refresh and it is very costly. So the idea to bring flexibility in the way they can consume technology, but also I would say much simpler way can more all in, which would be the concept of other service and with no surprise. Because unfortunately, when you look at any life cycle of a network over 7 of 10 years, you will see that the TCO, especially with the traditional supply chain today is very expensive. So this is another way on top of bringing technology innovation, bringing business model innovation with a potentially RAN or network as a service for 5g.

 

Abe Nejad: Interesting. I want to go back to you, Azita on your support for other operators. You talked about on APAC. In Japan that support there also an AMEA operator, the one-to-one partnership or relationship. And then you also made an announcement again a couple days ago with, AT&T. Can you tell us any more about the acceleration or those partnerships in the Americas? And the second part of this question is, do you need to be a greenfield operator in order to engage, or can you be a brown field operator? And I know that, you know the answer to that question, but there are some folks out there that don't.

 

Azita Arvani: Sure. I'd be happy to do that, but if you don't mind, I'm going to just add something to RAN as a service because we have announced a product called Sim World, which is ran as a service embodied in this Oran, just to carry a grade Oran solution, which is an appliance that you could carry, like one person can carry to the site? It helps modernizing the site. It comes in with Robin.io already built in the server functionality and it could be a multifunction type of appliance that helps you with whether you are a legacy operator or a new operator or an open RAN operator. And the functions that could go on top of this platform or things like cell site rather, you could put a virtualized distributed unit on it.

 

You could put edge applications on it. And even for the folks that have the old non Oran radios, you could put what we call the RIU, the radio interface unit in there to go from non open RAN, to open RAN. So that module we are offering both hardware and software package in one as a service. So then you don't have to worry about upgrading that on the service and that's offered as a service. So that's really RAN as a service embodied in a product. And that's really one of its kind. So I wanted to just build on top of what Thierry said there. 

 

Now moving on to your question about, so the way we do the Sim World, it's not like you need to take the whole thing. If you are a brown field operator, you can take the parts that are to do with virtualized run. Let's say you have a new spectrum that you want to deploy 5g on. So you could have a pocket of Greenfield just for virtualized RAN, and you could take the cloud layer and the network function layer on top of that plus some automation for that piece of it. If you are a completely legacy type of operator, and you want to stay there, but you want to take advantage of the automation layer. So we offer the intelligent operation separately. 

 

 

So there are multiple models that you could slice and dice this Symworld that could be very useful for any operator. But the point is that the digital transformation for telcos, the time for that is now. So instead of waiting to see what else will come, people need to decide, this is the moment I need to become digitally transformed, and how much do I want to do now? And how can I accelerate it? That's really, really important.

 

Abe Nejad: Partha there's reticence on the part of some of the brownfield operators out there, particularly in the Americas. What would you say to them, if they want to be part of Sim World, but again they have that reservation, maybe we're not the right candidate for this?

 

Partha Seetala: Well, Azita touched upon the part that Sim World is not something that they have to take as a whole. I mean, the whole thing is set up in such a way that if somebody wants to take the whole thing, they could, or they could take pieces out of that. Of course, there is ORAN, you could go with a smaller set of sectors and then you can start there. But even from the Robin.io perspective, the way we have architected the product right from the get go and in fact, we feel very fortunate that we made the decision very early on. The decision that, the workloads do not have to be containerized from the get go. The world will slowly transition over to everything being containerized. 

 

So we made this architectural design decision that we have to coexist VNF and CNFs on the same platform. And VNF are there in many other brown field deployments today, which allows them to take the existing VNFs. In fact, we have done that even at rapid mobile. So the 4g VNF. We are able to run that on the Robin Kubernetes platform alongside the 5g CNFs. So that flexibility exists and they can essentially start there. So they don't have to entirely rip and replace what they can slowly insert the pieces and then go forward from there.

 

Abe Nejad: Thierry in your wheelhouse, are you hearing any reservation about and unfounded by the way, in many cases, any reservation of being part of Symworld or RCP that it was called before…?

 

Thierry Maupile: So when you bring innovation to the market, you can expect that or you should not expect that overnight all the operators are going to say, okay, I'm going to stop the way I was doing, and I'm going to embrace this. I think what you have seen, why did we have this greenfield as a first wave of adoption of open ran, which has been extremely important for the whole industry, because those entrepreneurs who decided to differentiate, enter the market from scratch, building a new network, obviously didn't make a lot of sense to build same network as the other existing incumbent. 

 

So there was a motivation here. There was some risk but this risk that has been taken, if you fast forward now, three years. Now you have the proof that this is very, very good architecture, very, very good technology. So this is already given with confidence, what I call now, the second wave. What you see is that the brownfield which have the same agenda, they need to be in the market to be competitive, to reduce their cost structure, to have the service creation velocity. So they don't need a network. They need a platform, a platform that they can really create more value on top of it, because connectivity is not going to be enough. 

 

We know that going from 4g to 5g, just for connectivity is not going to change dramatically as the top line of the operator. So there's a motivation. The challenge is obviously that to insert this innovation in an existing environment, you need to be able to demonstrate that Mr. customer, the day you are going to replace your existing equipment, you put the open ran solution is going to work first, as good as well as what you have. So that's where we have done a tremendous investment on top of what we have to do for the greenfield is really to be able to service parity, feature parity for a legacy network operator. 

 

So that's what we are. And then you will see already in some markets, some of those operators, who have a legacy network, they don't want to wait because they know that as soon as they start, it's going to be a journey. And the technology is not the most important challenge. The challenge for them is that they need to transform their operations. They need new skill sets, new type of talent. And this is where we at Symphony are going to also partner with companies that can also help in the transformation of their own workforce. So that's a journey for what we call the second wave. And then the third wave, which is already started is really how private networks and enterprise are going to benefit for this concept of 5g as a service.

 

Abe Nejad: Thierry brings up a very good point. There's certainly the technology transition as we move to open ran, but there's also, and maybe equally as important, the culture 

transition. So how is Rakuten Symphony tackling that?

 

Azita Arvani: Well, the number one thing is to become aware of the fact that the culture and organization is super important in all of this. Because the way the old legacy system was done, which was mostly hardware based, tightly coupled software, all coming from one vendor sort of locked in, that seeps into the customer organization as well. The operations become harder, it becomes sort of siloed type of organization. So the number one thing for us is to help people's mindset to reimagine how telcos can be and show them that this actually helps with massive reduction of cost, massive automation and many other, enabling better security, also bringing agility that enables you to bring more services on top. 

 

So we not only help in terms of the lessons learned from a technology perspective, but lessons learned in terms of what kind of platform works here and what kind of skills do you need to bring to this, both in terms of operation of this and integration and development. So we think that we can offer both of these at the same time. Of course it's our own experience in Rock and Mobile Japan is a big help here.

 

Abe Nejad: Yeah, absolutely. Partha again technology transition versus skillset transitioning, culture transition where does the importance lye? Is it an equal ratio?

 

Partha Seetala: I don't know about a specific number, but I think both of them are important. I think that's very critical because somebody needs to go and there are different aspects to this. There is technology. Of course, everybody understands that it's going to be disruptive. Startups, bring a lot of disruptive thinking and all that, but in order for that disruption to be actually embraced and put in production and use, you need to have a cultural orientation towards taking those risks. Some of them have, I mean [28:43 inaudible] is a great example of that, is taking their risk both of course, with Altiostar as well as the drop in both being startups. 

 

But once it is in there, there has to be also this cultural shift towards, not just relying on manual operations. I mean, culturally how to get the team to a point where they think more in terms of automation, they think more in terms of how do I bring more programmability into my day-to-day life. So that's critical because at the end of the day as important as technology is that is important for managing the network in a cost efficient manner. So I think both of them are very important. I don't know about the ratio, but both of them are very important. 

 

Abe Nejad: Thierry any thoughts on the technology versus the culture change? 

 

Thierry Maupile: Well, as I mentioned, you need to, first that the technology works and that's what we did first to prove that this was the right approach to design the next generation network. I think the opportunity for the [29:49 inaudible], even if we say, okay, now there's a point to build a network at a cost, a lower cost to the previous generation, you have an opportunity as an operator now to reallocate your OPEX very differently. As it was mentioned, if what is the power of what we are doing here with the cloud-native, is when you add virtualization plus automation in a cloud environment, this end up with not just lower CapEx, but you can run a network with less people. 

 

So less people for this part of the network, but as the network is becoming a platform. If I'm an operator I want to have more people who are going to expose those APIs, who are going to create this environment for third parties to take advantage of my network, because my network becomes a platform, then I can monetize in a different way, which has been the problem in the previous generation, whereas the over the top guys took all the value. 

 

So this is a very important moment for the telco as they transition to become a digital platform. Can they have now a new type of resources within their organization to really create this next generation of value, which is going to be more around the services and the application that we'll have to take advantage of the network. And that's what we want to do. We want to enable them. And for that, they will have a different type of talent, of skills, but this is something which makes a lot of sense because the dollar that they will spend for the right skill will generate more revenues and not just dollars associated through pure connectivity,

 

Abe Nejad:  Thierry, I'm going to stick with you and then go down the line here and finish with the Azita. As we roll out 5g services that leverage open ran, and open ran technology. What do you think we should be talking about this time next year?

 

Thierry Maupile: Well, next time we should not discuss in a sense, is open ran real? Is it working? Is it just for rural? Does it support massive MIMO? I can understand that some people maybe as being more conservative or didn't want to go too quickly, may try to use arguments that it's not ready. It is, as I said, a technology, which is ready for deployment, has been proven and will continue to evolve. I think what is important for us as an industry again, is not to repeat as we are already starting to prepare 6 Gs at 3GPP will again define specification interfaces, which will not be completely defined to leave room for implementation that become proprietary. 

 

So we don't want a world where you dictate to impose what type of technology should be deployed. But from my point of view, we should be moving in a direction where open interfaces, open standardized interfaces are mandatory because if I'm an investor, if I'm an entrepreneur, that's what I want to see. I want an environment, a marketplace, where if I invest my energy, my innovation, I want to make sure that I have access to a very broad market. And this can only be done if we, as an industry will make sure that now future architecture, future networks will be designed with absolutely open interfaces.

 

Abe Nejad: Partha 5g, open ran, this time next year with the same group hopefully, all Rakuten Symphony maybe, what would be the conversation or what should be the conversation?

 

Partha Seelata: I think Thierry touched upon it. And you should not be talking about it if is possible, if it can be done and all that. I think we have gone past that. I think there are several proof points already. I believe that next year, this time we'll be talking about, maybe quantifiable numbers, what is the benefit that people have seen, how fast the networks are or a new site is being brought up? How fast is the operation or the operations being done? What are the cost savings? I think we'll start discussing those things rather than the viability of whether open ran is going to be the right model or not.

 

Abe Nejad: Yeah, Azita.

 

Azita Arvani: Yeah. So in addition to the great stuff that Thierry and Partha mentioned, but also talking about the agility of this platform, in addition to the cost savings and better security, is enable all the stuff that we promised as 5g services. The ultra broadband, the low latency type applications, the massive IOT, all of those things are even more possible on this platform that's more agile. You can bring those over-the-top services to this scalable, agile, architecture, much more easily. So not only do you get the cost saving, but then you get the new revenue streams coming in much easier in a more automated fashion. So I think that we need to be done with the fact that whether it works, whether it's here, whether it's for me and then also talk about all the great services, 5g services that I'm offering to my customers as operators.

 

Abe Nejad: Great. Again, we talked at the top of the segment about Rakuten Symphony's acquisition of Robin.io. The announcement was here in Barcelona at this event. It was big news Rakuten Symphony, Rakuten mobile making all the right moves in the industry and the ecosystem. So it's good to see that again, I know Altiostar experienced the same type of thing not long ago with Rakuten Symphony as well. So again, really good to have all three of you on the same session, on the same panel in Barcelona. And we really hope to have this again and not wait until next year in Barcelona, but maybe at another location. So I'll start with Azita. Thank you so much for your time. We know you're super busy. 

 

Azita Arvani: Thank you Abe, it's a pleasure. 

 

Abe Nejad: And we thank Partha as well and his team as well. Partha first of all we wouldn't be sitting here unless it was for Robin.io. They made all of this happen while we've been here for the last few days and having sessions similar to this. So we appreciate you and your team for that. And congratulations on the acquisition as well. 

 

Parthe Seelata: Thank you. 

 

Abe Nejad: And Thierry has always we've done this several times. Your team at Altiostar and now Rakuten Symphony is always very helpful and supportive so we appreciate that.

 

Thierry Maupile: Thank you very important to give the facts to your audience and we appreciate the opportunity.

 

Abe Nejad: Thank you so much.

 

 

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